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JEC57
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Post by JEC57 »

Germangirl wrote:
I don't understand the bitterness anymore. What is it, that you want him to do?
Stay in the UK for the rest of his life and let all the challenges, that make HIM happy, pass by? Its not, that he stops giving back to Britain, when they all can see the films, he is doing now. IMO you can't expect this sort of talent to be caged in a small cage, when it HAS to burst out into open space for all to see. And really, is he more close to you in Britain, where you don't see him then in NY. where you won't see him either? We are doomed to SEE him in pictures alone anyway...
Germangirl wrote: This is again something, that doesn't need to happen - because as we know, a discussion is about different views. I will never understand, why people are getting unhappy, when their views are not shared. Its not about right or wrong, its about opinions and those have the right to differ. With a remark like this, you are taking away that right.

I would like to understand you, hence I ask.
If it is not about right or wrong then I respectfully suggest you read your own last post back to yourself. The way it reads to me is that there is a lot of inference in there from you that I am wrong to feel the way I do.

My reply to this is simple - my view is one that is not shared by others, so I'll shut up banging on about it. Simples!
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Germangirl
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Post by Germangirl »

JEC57 wrote:
Germangirl wrote:
I don't understand the bitterness anymore. What is it, that you want him to do?
Stay in the UK for the rest of his life and let all the challenges, that make HIM happy, pass by? Its not, that he stops giving back to Britain, when they all can see the films, he is doing now. IMO you can't expect this sort of talent to be caged in a small cage, when it HAS to burst out into open space for all to see. And really, is he more close to you in Britain, where you don't see him then in NY. where you won't see him either? We are doomed to SEE him in pictures alone anyway...
Germangirl wrote: This is again something, that doesn't need to happen - because as we know, a discussion is about different views. I will never understand, why people are getting unhappy, when their views are not shared. Its not about right or wrong, its about opinions and those have the right to differ. With a remark like this, you are taking away that right.

I would like to understand you, hence I ask.
If it is not about right or wrong then I respectfully suggest you read your own last post back to yourself. The way it reads to me is that there is a lot of inference in there from you that I am wrong to feel the way I do.

My reply to this is simple - my view is one that is not shared by others, so I'll shut up banging on about it. Simples!
Posting a different opinion MIGHT cause you to feel, I feel, you are wrong, but you could choose otherwise, because how else can anybody speak his mind? I don't agree - does that make you wrong in my mind? Yes - does it make YOU wrong or ME right in general? No...you have the right to speak your mind, as have I. We don't agree. No more, no less. But there are still questions, you didn't answer. Pointing out my opinion is my way to get closer to what your opinion is based on and always ends in "What is it you want him to do?"
The top notch acting in the Weisz/Craig/Spall 'Betrayal' is emotionally true, often v funny and its beautifully staged with filmic qualities..

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JEC57
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Post by JEC57 »

Germangirl wrote:
JEC57 wrote:
Germangirl wrote:
I don't understand the bitterness anymore. What is it, that you want him to do?
Stay in the UK for the rest of his life and let all the challenges, that make HIM happy, pass by? Its not, that he stops giving back to Britain, when they all can see the films, he is doing now. IMO you can't expect this sort of talent to be caged in a small cage, when it HAS to burst out into open space for all to see. And really, is he more close to you in Britain, where you don't see him then in NY. where you won't see him either? We are doomed to SEE him in pictures alone anyway..
.
Germangirl wrote: This is again something, that doesn't need to happen - because as we know, a discussion is about different views. I will never understand, why people are getting unhappy, when their views are not shared. Its not about right or wrong, its about opinions and those have the right to differ. With a remark like this, you are taking away that right.

I would like to understand you, hence I ask.
If it is not about right or wrong then I respectfully suggest you read your own last post back to yourself. The way it reads to me is that there is a lot of inference in there from you that I am wrong to feel the way I do.

My reply to this is simple - my view is one that is not shared by others, so I'll shut up banging on about it. Simples!
Posting a different opinion MIGHT cause you to feel, I feel, you are wrong, but you could choose otherwise, because how else can anybody speak his mind? I don't agree - does that make you wrong in my mind? Yes - does it make YOU wrong or ME right in general? No...you have the right to speak your mind, as have I. We don't agree. No more, no less. But there are still questions, you didn't answer. Pointing out my opinion is my way to get closer to what your opinion is based on and always ends in "What is it you want him to do?"
If you go back and read my initial 4 posts on this, nowhere did I infer that other people's opinion was wrong, nor did I bombard them with questions asking them to justify their opinion on where it differed with mine. I offered my own opinion as a counter-point and gave some examples to illustrate my feelings.

Where I have the problem with your post (now highlighted in blue above) is the series of demands in it, which you make on me, to state what I think Daniel should do.

What I would like him to do is irrelevant because I have no influence on anything in his life. What I was doing was offering my feelings of gloom over what I perceive as a loss.

Others can think what they want, I have not insisted that others give me chapter and verse over why they think that way, which is what you did to me.

If it is not acceptable to "think out loud" and muse when I am in the obvious minority without having to justify myself when doing so, then I will keep my opinions to myself.
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Germangirl
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Post by Germangirl »

I am sorry, if you feel uncomfy, when your opinions are asked to being explained furthermore for me to understand them. I wouldn't do it, if I didn't care or weren't interested? Where I come from, its normal to further investigate in a discussion about things, you don't understand. Its not because I want to take away from you your opinion, its because I want to understand it. And I cannot from what you wrote. If i weren't interested in you as a person, I wouldn't give a damn. Is that a reason to feel offended?

And if it is irrelevant what you want him to do because you have no influence on what he does, then making statements, that what he does is wrong, is as irrelevant IMO. We know, we have no influence on his decisions, but still, the main thing on this forum consists of assuming about this or that, discussing into the blue etc. etc...that's all we can do...

It makes me sad, that there is still and again the feeling of being attacked instead of a feeling, that a simple question is being asked to find out more.
The top notch acting in the Weisz/Craig/Spall 'Betrayal' is emotionally true, often v funny and its beautifully staged with filmic qualities..

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JEC57
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Post by JEC57 »

Germangirl wrote:I am sorry, if you feel uncomfy, when your opinions are asked to being explained furthermore for me to understand them. I wouldn't do it, if I didn't care or weren't interested? Where I come from, its normal to further investigate in a discussion about things, you don't understand. Its not because I want to take away from you your opinion, its because I want to understand it. And I cannot from what you wrote. If i weren't interested in you as a person, I wouldn't give a damn. Is that a reason to feel offended?

And if it is irrelevant what you want him to do because you have no influence on what he does, then making statements, that what he does is wrong, is as irrelevant IMO. We know, we have no influence on his decisions, but still, the main thing on this forum consists of assumimg about this or that, discussing into the blue etc. etc...that's all we can do...

It makes me sad, that there is still and again the feeling of being attacked instead of a feeling, that a simple question is being asked to find out more.
First of all I did not say he was wrong.

In fact I said and I quote myself here........

"It's nice to see his success, to see that the world recognises his talent"

and

"Yes, it is lovely for him personally to have reached such dizzy heights, and gratifying that the world now sees what his home country knew for years and years, that he is the best actor of his generation."

What I wrote were my feelings of sadness and loss, no more than that. In my opinion, I think my feelings were pretty clear and there was nothing there that needed to be picked to pieces. I didn't demand an explanation from those who had a different opinion, so why should the same be done to me?

What is interesting in your statement highlighted above is the correlation you draw between 1) the irrelevancy of someone not having influence on another's action and 2) therefore commenting on those actions being irrelevant also.

It causes me to say "I rest my case". To me it is a case of, once again, someone who is not in step with the majority crowd is expected to go the extra mile to justify their opinion, rather than just being allowed to state how they feel.
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Post by Germangirl »

Not justify - just explain. There is a difference. I didn't put you on trial.

This is what you wrote and this caused me to answer, like I did.
What I would like him to do is irrelevant because I have no influence on anything in his life. What I was doing was offering my feelings of gloom over what I perceive as a loss.

Saying again, you or anybody is not allowed to have an opinion that differs with what the majority things is a bit too easy IMO. Asking "What is it then, that you want him to do instead of what he does" is NOT, you shouldn't feel like you do, its a "I don't understand it and would really like to." Hence I ask.
If I agree with somebody, I don't NEED to ask. Why is this such an affront?

BTW - thank you for taking the time to HAVE this conversation with me and I mean that. If we can overcome past experiences and either go on or end this on a positive note with no bad feelings, it would be another step forward. That is IF we want to have discussions. Because IF we do, its not possible, if you are not allowed to dig deeper into a thought someone has in an effort to understand it.
The top notch acting in the Weisz/Craig/Spall 'Betrayal' is emotionally true, often v funny and its beautifully staged with filmic qualities..

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JEC57
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Post by JEC57 »

Germangirl wrote:Not justify - just explain. There is a difference. I didn't put you on trial.

This is what you wrote and this caused me to answer, like I did.
What I would like him to do is irrelevant because I have no influence on anything in his life. What I was doing was offering my feelings of gloom over what I perceive as a loss.

Saying again, you or anybody is not allowed to have an opinion that differs with what the majority things is a bit too easy IMO. Asking "What is it then, that you want him to do instead of what he does" is NOT, you shouldn't feel like you do, its a "I don't understand it and would really like to." Hence I ask.
If I agree with somebody, I don't NEED to ask. Why is this such an affront?

BTW - thank you for taking the time to HAVE this conversation with me and I mean that. If we can overcome past experiences and either go on or end this on a positive note with no bad feelings, it would be another step forward. That is IF we want to have discussions. Because IF we do, its not possible, if you are not allowed to dig deeper into a thought someone has in an effort to understand it.


I do not think what I said was so revolutionary that it needs this type of detailed dissection into my thought processes. I fail to see what is so complicated about a sense of loss of the past and a dislike for the hoopla of Hollyweird.

I feel like $abbatha felt on many occasions in the past.....having to explain and explain just because what I feel is different from the crowds.

What part of "I feel sad" is so hard to understand?
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Post by Germangirl »

JEC57 wrote:
Germangirl wrote:Not justify - just explain. There is a difference. I didn't put you on trial.

This is what you wrote and this caused me to answer, like I did.
What I would like him to do is irrelevant because I have no influence on anything in his life. What I was doing was offering my feelings of gloom over what I perceive as a loss.

Saying again, you or anybody is not allowed to have an opinion that differs with what the majority things is a bit too easy IMO. Asking "What is it then, that you want him to do instead of what he does" is NOT, you shouldn't feel like you do, its a "I don't understand it and would really like to." Hence I ask.
If I agree with somebody, I don't NEED to ask. Why is this such an affront?

BTW - thank you for taking the time to HAVE this conversation with me and I mean that. If we can overcome past experiences and either go on or end this on a positive note with no bad feelings, it would be another step forward. That is IF we want to have discussions. Because IF we do, its not possible, if you are not allowed to dig deeper into a thought someone has in an effort to understand it.


I do not think what I said was so revolutionary that it needs this type of detailed dissection into my thought processes. I fail to see what is so complicated about a sense of loss of the past and a dislike for the hoopla of Hollyweird.

I feel like $abbatha felt on many occasions in the past.....having to explain and explain just because what I feel is different from the crowds.

What part of "I feel sad" is so hard to understand?
From WHAT I understood, you feel sad, because the pup moved on - sorta enlarged his playground. I think for me, this whole debate was about "What is it in your mind, he should have done? Not making Bond, staying in the UK and keep on playing smaller roles in Indie films? And I am not judging this as good or bad right now. Do you feel, that he sorta betrayed his roots by taking on roles like in C&A?

I remember an interview in Cannes, where he stated how much he enjoyed having done a film, that people actually went to see. Here I sense a certain frustration about his past films of which neither was a hit ,which he knew before.

Do you remember his quote in the LC Q&A?
"I want everything"

IMO, he was never planning to stop at Indie and small films - this doesn't take away your sadness of seeing him in big productions, but the pup probably never intended to stick to just smaller roles and theater. Sure, he hesitated with Bond, overwhelmed with the large scale of it and the impact of his privacy, but with every drop of blood in him crying out for challenging roles, he couldn't pass and if not this, another one would have come along. He is just too good...

But to follow my own rules and not going on and on about things, this will be my last post about this matter, even though I do hope, you might have something to say about what i wrote here. We actually did speak in some length about a controvers matter and if we can end it without being angry about each other, its even better and the way, it should be.

Off to sleep, its late - although we have a holiday tomorrow and no work :dance2:
The top notch acting in the Weisz/Craig/Spall 'Betrayal' is emotionally true, often v funny and its beautifully staged with filmic qualities..

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JEC57
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Post by JEC57 »

Germangirl wrote: From WHAT I understood, you feel sad, because the pup moved on - sorta enlarged his playground. I think for me, this whole debate was about "What is it in your mind, he should have done? Not making Bond, staying in the UK and keep on playing smaller roles in Indie films? And I am not judging this as good or bad right now. Do you feel, that he sorta betrayed his roots by taking on roles like in C&A?
You keep asking the same question but in another disguise.

My reply was that what I would want him to do is totally irrelevant because I have no impact on his life.

Just because you do not like my answer does not mean that I am obliged to find you another one which suits you better.

I say this because I think I have explained enough, and repeated it more than once. I fail to see what part of the simple thought flow of “I am sad” is so hard to understand (and bearing in mind I gave the reasons for my sadness).

I think this conversation is going nowhere so I am bowing out of the discussion at this point and I wish you a “goodnight”.
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Post by Raymond01 »

JEC: Back to original topic--your statement reminded me of a loss from years ago. (One that DC replaced for me.) My favorie actor for most of my adult life was British actor, Alan Bates (died a few years ago). He made very, very large production movies (D.H. Lawrence stories with Julie Christi), other classic adaptations, many unforgetable small rolls, some TV in later life, plays, etc. A very gifted and accomplished actor. He probably could have gone the blockbuster route but did not. Consequently, many, many knew him (those truly interested in film and plays) and probably those interested in super heros will never know of him.

After Alan Bates died, I had NO favorite actor, until DC. I found DC via CR, then researched his previous movies and found--here is a true talent. I see where you are coming from with DC and I totally agree. I love SciFi and can't wait for C&A, but I long for meaningful meaty roles (hoping GWTDT will provide this). But DH to me seems along the lines of what Harrison Ford did to his career (I'm not a HF fan--just observation about him).

I wait to see what his next move will be (after the next Bond film). I think actors can make their mark and be very popular without going strictly the mega-super star route.
"It's when things are unclear and when you don't know what you're doing--that's when things are difficult." Daniel Craig


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Post by sf2la »

I think I understand where you are coming from, JEC, and understand your sadness with the situation and think I would feel somewhat the same.

Can I offer how I believe I can relate?

1. This C&A is somewhat crap to me. It will be a blockbuster and it will be fun, but it doesn't seem like an 'acting' movie', rather a special effects movie. I've made it no secret that I am not a sci-fi fan, but clearly DC is from what we know he reads. He likes challenges, and I'd say it's a big challenge for a Brit who didn't ride horses to lead a Spielberg (!) movie with HF as a costar, a man DC has said he's always admired. He's in a frickin' cowboy and sci-fi movie. Fav is promoting the hell out of it, which is good of course, but it seems to cheapen the whole thing in a way. All that said, I'm now looking forward to it, but this is NOT the kind of movie I am anxious to see DC in. No way. He seems above this type of movie. But he'll make a mint, he had fun making it, and he'll enjoy the success. He's the only reason I'm going.

2. I much prefer the indie roles. I much prefer most all indie movies to any other. When I look for a movie to see, I immediately look at our 'CineArts' theater first, which shows indies and foreign movies. It's a rare HW movie that excites me (I did enjoy Bridesmades though) AND really, the only decent ones are released after October as they approach Oscar time. Even 'A King's Speech' is not a HW movie. Too bad DC didn't play Bertie in 'A King's Speech' because surely he could have done as good of a job as Firth. We would have loved him in that.

3. TGWTDT will be awesome. That's the Daniel role we want to see. A REAL character role that's all acting. And Fincher is gold, so it should be Oscar material.

4. I totally understand your feeling of 'loss' for the pre-megastar Daniel. That Daniel would have been more accessible if and when you ran into him, and it was pretty obvious where you would have seen him. A local pub, the petrol station, etc. I'd be bummed too if he left London, which has been his home for his whole life, to relocate his home base to NY. I suspect this may be one of the reasons you dislike Rachel so, and I understand if that is a contributing factor. I know, it's just nice to have him nearby and hope you might bump into him. Trust me, if I lived in the East Village, I'd be pretty psyched right now and would try to join that gym just to watch him work out! At least NYC is a walking city, so he's apt to get out quite a bit, particularly if he accompanies Rachel and Henry. Dogs and kids need to go outside.

5. Despite not living anywhere near him, his megastardom has caused him/allowed him to be another step removed from the public. Sure, there are tweets that shows he gets out and about, but it's going to be much more difficult for him to do that after C&A and Tattoo. Certainly no more trips to all-access islands like St. Barts because these HW A-listers, all his new friends, have mega-yachts, private islands, private planes, etc. He will become much more elusive than ever before.

6. Neither of us blame him for taking this route - he's being offered the best scripts, the best directors, the best costars, all the money needed to make a film, and huge salaries and residuals. For sure he wants an Oscar. No doubt. And with that, his name will no longer be Daniel Craig; it will be 'Oscar winner Daniel Craig.' That alone is a huge automatic pay raise. As much as we know he's not an actor for the money, his agent would be a joke if he didn't get Daniel all that he could. And Daniel's with CAA, the biggy, highly-respected one. Let's just hope that he takes more character roles than non-Bond action figure roles.

7. But yeah, following Daniel will be much different in the future.

Let me know if I'm wrong, but I think I get where you are coming from and see your point.
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Post by JEC57 »

Raymond and SF, thank you.

You are both spot on with everything you both said.
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Post by Dunda »

Sf2la, you are spot on.

I can agree on almost everything in your post, only I hope C&A isn't crap for me. :wink:

I wouldn't use the word crap, that's all, because I consider movies to be crap if they are done poorly, somehow without respect for the audience. I don't know how to explain it.

For example I'm not a fan of "Köstumschinken". There's no translation for this, this are movie about historical events (real ones or just fiction) with very opulent costumes and set designs. I haven't seen Perfume: The Story of a Murderer. I'm not interested and I would fall asleep. But I would never say that movie is crap, because it was done with very much effort and love for the genre and respect for the novel and respect for the audience and because of that is was good for those who like the genre.

And regarding Daniel:

I think he's a guy for challanges. That's why he took Bond and now C&A and Tattoo. He has reached the highest level in Britain, was respected and awarded by the British audience, critics and movie connected people.

If he didin't want to stay on that level, he has to make the next move. I think any other moves would have been stagnation on the (high) level, but still stagnation.
And Hollwood is still THE place in the movie business, it's the aim almost all actors are going for. I hope Tattoo will do it for him, but I'm sure he wouldn't play Blomkvist without being Bond. And that would be a shame.

I could have lived with RDJ as Jake Lonergan, but I could not have lived with Pitt as Blomkvist.



I hope I made myself clear, it's not easy, not even in German.
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Post by bumblebee »

Well hopefully when he's settled into his new London pad we'll regain the comfort of seeing him pounding the streets of London in beanies, cardies, and jogging outfits again. Have faith that Daniel is still in there, for my part the past two years have been a little displaced - no films, NY-based play, relationship changes.

Need some ying and yang and realignment. Mikhail will bring that I think, you can see Daniel in him, I can't see Daniel in the cowboy (which says a lot about his talent).
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Post by khenton »

bumblebee wrote:Well hopefully when he's settled into his new London pad we'll regain the comfort of seeing him pounding the streets of London in beanies, cardies, and jogging outfits again. Have faith that Daniel is still in there, for my part the past two years have been a little displaced - no films, NY-based play, relationship changes.

Need some ying and yang and realignment. Mikhail will bring that I think, you can see Daniel in him, I can't see Daniel in the cowboy (which says a lot about his talent).

:stick_iagree: :wink: K
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