Spectre November 2015

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bumblebee
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Post by bumblebee »

Let's get back to CR Bond then! Pre-Vesper's death. All cocky and arrogant.
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CockHargreaves
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Post by CockHargreaves »

Yes, wasn't he luscious? :sigh:
Sylvia's girl
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Post by Sylvia's girl »

CockHargreaves wrote:Yes, wasn't he luscious? :sigh:
At his best imo. :wink:
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Vanquish
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Post by Vanquish »

bumblebee wrote:Let's get back to CR Bond then! Pre-Vesper's death. All cocky and arrogant.
I like Bond's growth and development over Daniel's three films.

Yes, Bond was cocky and arrogant in CR but it was mostly bravado. Beneath he was struggling with the choices he had made. Only Vesper saw through that and offered him a way out only to abruptly slam that door in his face. It was only right that in QOS we that we saw a darker, more violent Bond as he was still clearly dealing with some unresolved issues.

The SF Bond is also very interesting as at the start of the film, Daniel's Bond is the closest to a veteran we have ever seen. We have seen Daniel's Bond as the rookie agent earning his strips and now by film 3 are seeing him as a washed-up spy past his sell-by-date. Bond is broken and forced to rebuild himself.

Daniel's Bond is a much more developed character than any of the other actors had the chance to play. Looking at his trajectory so far I'm very interested in seeing what direction Mendes will take him next. Personally I think we will see more of the alcoholic Bond hinted at in SF.
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CockHargreaves
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Post by CockHargreaves »

Vanquish wrote:
bumblebee wrote:Let's get back to CR Bond then! Pre-Vesper's death. All cocky and arrogant.
I like Bond's growth and development over Daniel's three films.

Yes, Bond was cocky and arrogant in CR but it was mostly bravado. Beneath he was struggling with the choices he had made. Only Vesper saw through that and offered him a way out only to abruptly slam that door in his face. It was only right that in QOS we that we saw a darker, more violent Bond as he was still clearly dealing with some unresolved issues.

The SF Bond is also very interesting as at the start of the film, Daniel's Bond is the closest to a veteran we have ever seen. We have seen Daniel's Bond as the rookie agent earning his strips and now by film 3 are seeing him as a washed-up spy past his sell-by-date. Bond is broken and forced to rebuild himself.

Daniel's Bond is a much more developed character than any of the other actors had the chance to play. Looking at his trajectory so far I'm very interested in seeing what direction Mendes will take him next. Personally I think we will see more of the alcoholic Bond hinted at in SF.
I agree with your assessment of his character up to now, Vanquish. There's a danger of making him seem too old and "past it" if they take the Skyfall Bond to the next level. But they have hinted that the next film will continue similar themes, so you could be right.
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Post by Germangirl »

That i dont see so much (the alcoholic Bond) as that was part of his down time. Of course, Bind likes to drink, but I doubt they are giving us another Bond, who deals with things through alc. At the end, for the first fime in DCs tenure, we saw the full fletched Bond. He has made a journey and is now, where the character used to be. Some twists, some drama, yes, but no DRAMA any more. I believe and hope not.
I dont think, they continue with the old scenario. They made him look older, then necessary, so now he can just look himself and continue without having to cintinue this path. Its a shame, he looked so much better in every bit if his promo for the film.
Last edited by Germangirl on Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The top notch acting in the Weisz/Craig/Spall 'Betrayal' is emotionally true, often v funny and its beautifully staged with filmic qualities..

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Vanquish
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Post by Vanquish »

CockHargreaves wrote:
Vanquish wrote:
bumblebee wrote:Let's get back to CR Bond then! Pre-Vesper's death. All cocky and arrogant.
I like Bond's growth and development over Daniel's three films.

Yes, Bond was cocky and arrogant in CR but it was mostly bravado. Beneath he was struggling with the choices he had made. Only Vesper saw through that and offered him a way out only to abruptly slam that door in his face. It was only right that in QOS we that we saw a darker, more violent Bond as he was still clearly dealing with some unresolved issues.

The SF Bond is also very interesting as at the start of the film, Daniel's Bond is the closest to a veteran we have ever seen. We have seen Daniel's Bond as the rookie agent earning his strips and now by film 3 are seeing him as a washed-up spy past his sell-by-date. Bond is broken and forced to rebuild himself.

Daniel's Bond is a much more developed character than any of the other actors had the chance to play. Looking at his trajectory so far I'm very interested in seeing what direction Mendes will take him next. Personally I think we will see more of the alcoholic Bond hinted at in SF.
I agree with your assessment of his character up to now, Vanquish. There's a danger of making him seem too old and "past it" if they take the Skyfall Bond to the next level. But they have hinted that the next film will continue similar themes, so you could be right.
Fleming's Bond is a real depressive in the latter books with a massive drinking problem.

This character was definitely hinted at in SF and it seems to me that the building blocks have been put into place to continue this next time. I hope we see a much more fragile Bond having turned to the bottle and hardly holding things together in Bond 24.
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Post by Germangirl »

Gosh really? Then you can say Bye Bye to 25 right away, because then they have nowhere to go.To me, a terrible thought. Seeing him look even worse, when he can look so attractive and no 25.if Babs does that, she is real stupid and it wouldnt be fair to him either.
The top notch acting in the Weisz/Craig/Spall 'Betrayal' is emotionally true, often v funny and its beautifully staged with filmic qualities..

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CockHargreaves
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Post by CockHargreaves »

Anthony Hopkins once started in an action movie called When Eight Bells Toll, which made people draw comparisons with Bond at the time. He said something along the lines of wanting his character to be more realistic than Bond, because Bond consumed so much alcohol he'd never be able to pull a hair trigger, never mind save the day and get the girl etc.
for me, I can see that there's a trend towards following Fleming's vision of Bond more closely, but the fact is that people pay to see an action hero who is larger than life and they can believe will be capable of saving the day. It will be interesting to see how they strike the balance.
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Post by Germangirl »

I think, it would be a repeat and they havent done that yet. I believe, you can show some inner turmoil and still let the character have some fun and being on top of his game most of the time. But yeah, tme will.tell. problem is, that Daniel is always just too happy to play his characters as troubled :lol:
The top notch acting in the Weisz/Craig/Spall 'Betrayal' is emotionally true, often v funny and its beautifully staged with filmic qualities..

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Alina
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Post by Alina »

Germangirl wrote:I think, it would be a repeat and they havent done that yet. I believe, you can show some inner turmoil and still let the character have some fun and being on top of his game most of the time. But yeah, tme will.tell. problem is, that Daniel is always just too happy to play his characters as troubled :lol:
I agree, besides, as Vanquish has written, Bond in Skyfall was broken, but forced to rebuild himself, therefore I don't see any reason for making him "broken" and focused on his inner turmoil again and drowning his existential dilemmas in alcohol.
Bond has always, in all Bond movies, drunk like a fish, so this is nothing new for the character. Only in Daniel's movies his drinkig was closer to Fleming's idea of a brooding and lone-wolf agent for whom booze was a way of dealing with the skeletons in his closet.
I'd say the ending of Skyfall quite clearly prepared the ground for the reborn and fit agent who has managed to deal with the turmoils of evanescence and is ready to perform his duties on Her Majesty's secret service :)
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SmittenDramaKitten
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Post by SmittenDramaKitten »

From Sean Connery all the way through to Daniel, Bond movies for me have always been ESCAPIST entertainment. I hope they continue in that vein. No alcoholism or a depressed Bond please. The thing with Bond is that he is a STRONG character and can shirk off whatever life throws at him. In tough times, the public need to see that. Daniels Bond movies CAN deliver gritty reality without the need for sliding into morbidity..... :wink:
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purple
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Post by purple »

I agree that during the 3 movies, Daniel's Bond followed a path and built himself - the arrogant cocky boy (CR) was broken and forced to go through hell (QoS) and then had to confront his own ghosts and demons (SF). I absolutely loved that, seeing how the man turned into a spy.

But the idea of seeing a depressed character struggling with alcoholism sort of makes me shudder. I am a huge fan of film noir, I will always go for gritty and dark, but I would rather avoid morbidity (as SDK put it).

To me the end of SF was a bit like a full circle - after all the darkness and the rain the sun had come up again and a new road could be taken. In the dvd extras someone (I think Mendes but I am not sure) says about that roof scene - the hero has come home. So a cycle is now complete, we have a mature Bond, who struggled and went through a lot, he will never be the pre-Vesper boy never again; he knows better. He even knows his limits, but also his strength. So based on that, a new path could be taken.

And there is smth else, maybe stupid. During the last conversation with Mallory (So 007 lots to be done...), on the wall, there is a painting of a ship sailing on the sea - as opposed to the painting in the museum. I have always seen that as a sort of "back in battle" sign.

Again, I do not want a cartoonish Moore/Brosnan type of Bond. But I hope we will not have a depressed morbid character either.
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Post by SmittenDramaKitten »

purple wrote:I agree that during the 3 movies, Daniel's Bond followed a path and built himself - the arrogant cocky boy (CR) was broken and forced to go through hell (QoS) and then had to confront his own ghosts and demons (SF). I absolutely loved that, seeing how the man turned into a spy.

But the idea of seeing a depressed character struggling with alcoholism sort of makes me shudder. I am a huge fan of film noir, I will always go for gritty and dark, but I would rather avoid morbidity (as SDK put it).

To me the end of SF was a bit like a full circle - after all the darkness and the rain the sun had come up again and a new road could be taken. In the dvd extras someone (I think Mendes but I am not sure) says about that roof scene - the hero has come home. So a cycle is now complete, we have a mature Bond, who struggled and went through a lot, he will never be the pre-Vesper boy never again; he knows better. He even knows his limits, but also his strength. So based on that, a new path could be taken.

And there is smth else, maybe stupid. During the last conversation with Mallory (So 007 lots to be done...), on the wall, there is a painting of a ship sailing on the sea - as opposed to the painting in the museum. I have always seen that as a sort of "back in battle" sign.

Again, I do not want a cartoonish Moore/Brosnan type of Bond. But I hope we will not have a depressed morbid character either.
Purple... the bold para: It was John Logan who said that...

The italics para.... God, I NEVER noticed that painting!!!! :shock: :roll: I'll look for it next time. Too busy ogling Daniel again, even though he's not on screen with RF, I still ogle!! :wink:
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bumblebee
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Post by bumblebee »

But we can still hope for elements of CR, not the whole kaboodle. For example, the scene where he plays the parking valet at the Ocean Club and reverses the Range Rover and crashes it.

Oh and don't even get me started on the most genius Bond scene ever - the train scene with Vesper. Please, please more repartee like that with women who live longer than five minutes.
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