Rachel Weisz film news

Visit here to read and post all the latest Daniel Craig-related news, TV/VCR(DVD) alerts, etc.

Moderator: Germangirl

User avatar
DeeDee
Posts: 224
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:21 am
Location: USA

Post by DeeDee » Sat Apr 05, 2014 12:23 pm

Germangirl wrote:Thanks Dee Dee. Maybe it was a silly question anyway, as us Germans do it too. There is a huge difference between North and South and certain other parts and we are much much smaller.
Not a silly question at all. I hope it helped a little to try and explain about certain states and their accents and tones. I love all the different accents, from other counties or even within ones own county. I'm sure most would agree that It would be so boring if we all sounded alike :D

SmittenDramaKitten
Posts: 9940
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 11:29 am

Post by SmittenDramaKitten » Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:08 pm

My take on all of this is that Daniel doesn't need a "veil" to be a good actor. A change in his accent is a veil. So, it does seem unnecessary to change his voice when it is so wonderful 'as is'. But, directors, producers & script demand some kind of authenticity. I actually thought that Daniel did a good job with the accent in Defiance. He could have ended up sounding like a bad imitation as Chekhov did in "Star Trek" but it was a lot more fluid than that. We can only wait and see... :dunno:

User avatar
Dunda
Administrator
Posts: 21884
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:08 pm
Location: Germany

Post by Dunda » Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:57 pm

Using different accents makes a difference for the audience if it's their native tounge.

I'm pretty happy if I'm able to understand the dialoges if they are in ENGLISH and I don't care about the accents at all. At least not about those tiny nuances.

English with an eastern European accent or an asian one really stand out and I'm able to locate it. But Boston, Chicago or New York, London, Bristol or Birmingham well I'm lost :wink:
Image

Visit the forum at www.dedicatedtodaniel.com

User avatar
purple
Posts: 854
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:11 pm

Post by purple » Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:37 pm

I think however that when it comes to accents in movies, we have roughly two types of situations:

1. English speaking movies, taking place in an English speaking environment. In such cases I admit that accent is important: it might be a class identifier as CockH explained it. Or, I don't know, we could have a movie taking place in the Wild West in the 19th century - in such a case it would be ridiculous to have a cowboy with British accent let's say. But in situations which allow for more flexibility (the action takes place nowadays, in a globalised world, where people move and travel a lot and work abroad) I do not think accent is such a big issue. As Alina put it, he could be a British lawyer working in Boston.

2. English speaking movies, with an international cast, taking place in any other country: Sweden, Russia, Japan you name it. In such situations I think it is rather ridiculous to ask actors to speak English with the accent of that country. Why? What is the point? Either you make a movie in Russian, Swedish, Japanese etc, either you make it in English. But not in EN with a foreign accent.

User avatar
SilverLining
Posts: 143
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:00 pm
Location: Malta

Post by SilverLining » Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:59 pm

I do agree that his performance in Defiance was very admirable. I think it should be appreciated that he learnt some russian for the movie, and studied the accent.
However, in general, I am not usually affected whether the accent of the place is present or not in the movie. For example, in GWTDT, it didn't affect me at all. I prefer that the movie and the actors are criticized for the plot and their ability to portray the character, instead of how well they speak a language/ dialect they had to learn in a matter of few months.
It's just my opinion, obviously persons living in that particular country/ state will probably have other opinions. :)

User avatar
sf2la
Posts: 14520
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:15 pm
Location: CA

Post by sf2la » Sat Apr 05, 2014 4:50 pm

I think it's a bit complicated. For the non-Americans on the forum, do you know ANYONE from your country who has aspired to be a prosecuting or defense lawyer practicing in the U.S.? I just can't imagine.

If he had been able to keep his accent :cryblow , I would have assumed that he spent some of his childhood living in the U.S. - that's just my perception. But the director of the movie thinks he needs to be a US born citizen. As for having to come from Boston to be a trial attorney in Boston, that's rubbish. Unless one is a Federal attorney representing federal cases or an attorney that never has to appear in court, attorneys must pass the state exam, called 'the bar', to practice in the state they wish to practice.

If you go to law school in California, you learn general law and then the specifics of the laws in California. After law school you need to pass the bar to actually be a practicing attorney here. If you want to practice in Massachusetts, you need to study and pass their bar. It's more difficult to pass the bar in a different state from where you went to law school because you weren't taught their specific laws, but you can take prep classes, study on your own, whatever. It's done ALL THE TIME.

As an American, Daniel could have ANY accent and be a believable practicing attorney in MA. Even if he was supposed to have graduated from Harvard (which is in Boston), one wouldn't think he had been brought up in MA; Harvard students come from all over the world. Personally, I think a Boston accent is one of the most unattractive accents in the country. At least he will look good :lol: . I think the longer hair goes with the whole liberal wealthy man look. Think Michael Douglas - LOL. And I think the stereotype of a defense attorney is that he/she is a liberal. They are definitely not in favor of the death penalty.

User avatar
purple
Posts: 854
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:11 pm

Post by purple » Sat Apr 05, 2014 4:58 pm

Thank you SF for these informations. Does the death penalty exist in MA? As for a foreigner studying and passing his exam in any state (MA for example) this is possible. And it doesn't mean he or she would necessarily have to acquire the accent as well. I will stop here with this accent stuff it's not like the pruducers will ask for my opinion anyway. :D

User avatar
sf2la
Posts: 14520
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:15 pm
Location: CA

Post by sf2la » Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:25 pm

purple wrote:Thank you SF for these informations. Does the death penalty exist in MA? As for a foreigner studying and passing his exam in any state (MA for example) this is possible. And it doesn't mean he or she would necessarily have to acquire the accent as well. I will stop here with this accent stuff it's not like the pruducers will ask for my opinion anyway. :D
You're welcome, Purple! I had to google it, but, "No," the death penalty is not legal in MA. Massachusetts's history, at least in my lifetime, is that of a liberal (run by democrats as opposed to republicans) state. It's where the Kennedy's are from.

I don't think it's possible for a foreigner, living outside the US to just study and pass the bar. I googled and found this interesting - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admission_ ... ted_States. (WEIRD - it won't open in Chrome, but it opens in Safari. But there are other similar sites.)

But REALLY, he does not have to have a Bostonian accent. In fact, it's more likely that he would NOT have a Boston accent if he had graduated from Harvard. Getting into Harvard, particularly Harvard Law School, is obviously extremely difficult. But really, the Northeast has a reputation for having an excellent educational system and excellent colleges/universities.

User avatar
Alina
Posts: 2257
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:16 am
Location: Poland

Post by Alina » Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:07 pm

purple wrote:I think however that when it comes to accents in movies, we have roughly two types of situations:

1. English speaking movies, taking place in an English speaking environment. In such cases I admit that accent is important: it might be a class identifier as CockH explained it. Or, I don't know, we could have a movie taking place in the Wild West in the 19th century - in such a case it would be ridiculous to have a cowboy with British accent let's say. But in situations which allow for more flexibility (the action takes place nowadays, in a globalised world, where people move and travel a lot and work abroad) I do not think accent is such a big issue. As Alina put it, he could be a British lawyer working in Boston.

2. English speaking movies, with an international cast, taking place in any other country: Sweden, Russia, Japan you name it. In such situations I think it is rather ridiculous to ask actors to speak English with the accent of that country. Why? What is the point? Either you make a movie in Russian, Swedish, Japanese etc, either you make it in English. But not in EN with a foreign accent.
I pretty much agree with both points you've made.
That's why I think it's not really necessary to give him a dialect coach, as there are people with various backgrounds and nationalities in the US and forcing him to acquire some Bostonian accent could actually backfire.
And this worries me. People will be nitpicking that his accent is not really Bostonian or even American instead of focusing on the acting, the movie and the plot. That's what happend in the case of Lara Croft, every time it's on TV there are lots of tweets referring to his accent, but then, there was nothing really to focus on in that movie, maybe apart from Daniel's body which is also quite widely commented on. On the other hand I think he did quite a good job in Infamous, but here I'd be interested in the opinion of our American ladies.

However I see absolutely NO POINT in making actors change their accent for an English speaking movie set in a foreign country. It will never sound natural - neither English nor e.g. Polish or Swedish, just weird.
Therefore, In Defiance they should've used their own accents in English spoken scenes and only try to imitate the Russian accent when speaking Russian.
The way they spoke English didn't sound too much like a Polish accent anyway, some attempt was audible for sure, but still it was a bit too exaggerated and too hard. But I'm not complaining, it didn't bother me much, it's just an observation. And I'm happy Daniel didn't try to imitate the Swedish accent in the Tattoo.

I remember Meryl Streep's Polish accent in Sophie's Choice. Then it was fully justified as she played a Polish immigrant who lived in Brooklyn. She did a good job, I must admit, although she still didn't 100% sound like a Pole speaking English. But it was quite passable and acceptable.

Changing accents is always quite risky as mastering a foreign accent is very difficult and there will always be moaners who will complain.
Image

User avatar
purple
Posts: 854
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:11 pm

Post by purple » Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:31 pm

@ SF: thank you once more. I write from my phone so I cannot google or surf the net easily but when I get home I will check that link.

@ Alina: exactly. As you said for Merryl Streep it made sense to speak with a Polish accent since she was a Polish immigrant. But why did Tuvia had to speak English with that accent whatever it was? He was not living in a EN speaking country to begin with. If anything he should have spoken the labguage of the country. Whatever. Producers and their ideas.

User avatar
SilverLining
Posts: 143
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:00 pm
Location: Malta

Post by SilverLining » Sat Apr 05, 2014 7:44 pm

Alina wrote:I pretty much agree with both points you've made.
That's why I think it's not really necessary to give him a dialect coach, as there are people with various backgrounds and nationalities in the US and forcing him to acquire some Bostonian accent could actually backfire.
And this worries me. People will be nitpicking that his accent is not really Bostonian or even American instead of focusing on the acting, the movie and the plot. That's what happend in the case of Lara Croft, every time it's on TV there are lots of tweets referring to his accent, but then, there was nothing really to focus on in that movie, maybe apart from Daniel's body which is also quite widely commented on. On the other hand I think he did quite a good job in Infamous, but here I'd be interested in the opinion of our American ladies.

However I see absolutely NO POINT in making actors change their accent for an English speaking movie set in a foreign country. It will never sound natural - neither English nor e.g. Polish or Swedish, just weird.
Therefore, In Defiance they should've used their own accents in English spoken scenes and only try to imitate the Russian accent when speaking Russian.
The way they spoke English didn't sound too much like a Polish accent anyway, some attempt was audible for sure, but still it was a bit too exaggerated and too hard. But I'm not complaining, it didn't bother me much, it's just an observation. And I'm happy Daniel didn't try to imitate the Swedish accent in the Tattoo.

I remember Meryl Streep's Polish accent in Sophie's Choice. Then it was fully justified as she played a Polish immigrant who lived in Brooklyn. She did a good job, I must admit, although she still didn't 100% sound like a Pole speaking English. But it was quite passable and acceptable.

Changing accents is always quite risky as mastering a foreign accent is very difficult and there will always be moaners who will complain.
I couldn't agree more, especially with phrases in bold!

User avatar
Alina
Posts: 2257
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:16 am
Location: Poland

Post by Alina » Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:22 pm

Thanks, SL, I'm happy we think alike and this applies to purple as well :)

PS Meryl Streep won an Oscar for Sophie's Choice, it's a great, really gripping and poignant movie and Styron's novel is even better.
Styron's next novel, Sophie's Choice (1979), also generated significant controversy, in part due to Styron's decision to portray a non-Jewish victim of the Holocaust and in part due to its explicit sexuality and profanity. It was banned in South Africa, censored in the Soviet Union, and banned in Poland for "its unflinching portrait of Polish anti-Semitism" It has also been banned in some high schools in the United States.

The novel tells the story of Sophie (a Polish Roman Catholic who survived Auschwitz), Nathan (her brilliant Jewish lover who suffered from paranoid schizophrenia), and Stingo (a Southern transplant in post-World War II-Brooklyn who was in love with Sophie). It won the 1980 National Book Award and was a nationwide bestseller. A 1982 film version was nominated for five Academy Awards, with Meryl Streep winning the Academy Award for Best Actress for her portrayal of Sophie. Kevin Kline and Peter MacNicol played Nathan and Stingo, respectively.
A GREAT READ!

Sorry for the OT.
Image

User avatar
purple
Posts: 854
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:11 pm

Post by purple » Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:53 pm

Alina wrote:Thanks, SL, I'm happy we think alike and this applies to purple as well :)
We should start a petition against forcing actors to acquire unnecessary accents :)

User avatar
Alina
Posts: 2257
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:16 am
Location: Poland

Post by Alina » Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:01 pm

purple wrote:
Alina wrote:Thanks, SL, I'm happy we think alike and this applies to purple as well :)
We should start a petition against forcing actors to acquire unnecessary accents :)
A GREAT idea! :)
Image

Littlesue
Posts: 299
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:43 pm

Post by Littlesue » Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:00 am

purple wrote:
Alina wrote:Thanks, SL, I'm happy we think alike and this applies to purple as well :)
We should start a petition against forcing actors to acquire unnecessary accents :)
:lol: Fassbender, even though being such a good actor still struggles with his accents, always seems to leer back to the Irish lilt by the end of th efilm :D

Post Reply