The Daniel Craig Forum

Lu wrote:Also, why did Fincher choose to change the ending to make Lisbeth look weak, jealous, petty? It ruined the entire movie for me and pissed me off. Lisbeth deserved her chance to be the strong hero after all she accomplished in the movie. Ugh.

I haven't seen it (12th January please come!) but this Fincher's ending is very true to the book. Lisbeth was very hurt when she saw Blomkvist with Erica and threw the gift she bought for him away. The German translation says "The pain she felt went throught her body suddently and brutal, she wasn't able to move". That's the reason why she barely talked with M in the second and third book.

The Swedish movie didn't show that side of Lisbeth and that was what pissed me off.

Dunda wrote:

Lu wrote:Also, why did Fincher choose to change the ending to make Lisbeth look weak, jealous, petty? It ruined the entire movie for me and pissed me off. Lisbeth deserved her chance to be the strong hero after all she accomplished in the movie. Ugh.

I haven't seen it (12th January please come!) but this Fincher's ending is very true to the book. Lisbeth was very hurt when she saw Blomkvist with Erica and threw the gift she bought for him away. The German translation says "The pain she felt went throught her body suddently and brutal, she wasn't able to move". That's the reason why she barely talked with M in the second and third book.

The Swedish movie didn't show that side of Lisbeth and that was what pissed me off.

I won't discuss the personal reactions to the rape scenes.

But, I didn't find Lisbeth's reaction petty, and why does being hurt by someone elses choices make one weak? Fincher's choice of a more personal gift for MB from Lisbeth, the leather jacket instead of a cheap velvet Elvis, makes her feelings deep and varied. Like all of us, she's complex, not just the one dimensional, cold hearted punk her visuals portray.

@Lu, my mind keeps going back to the scene when Lisbeth finally gets MB down from the harness and she grabs the gun and asks Michael 'May I kill him?' Speaks volumes to me.

Have to admit I didn't see her weak or jealous at the end. I saw heartbroken and a confirmation that her suspicions about men were correct all along. She thought MB was different and now she thinks he is just like all the others who have exploited her throughout her life.

The tossing of the leather jacket to my eyes was a gesture of "my mistake, won't make the same one twice". I also saw defiance in the way the roar of her motorcycle was a metaphor for the roar of her own survival.

Lu, I had not even noticed the different lighting in the two rape scenes. I need to go back and look more closely for the things you pointed out.


But.....it is great to read what others think and to read what others saw. We all see things differently and going back to watch a scene again with the benefit of what others saw brings new insights.

JEC57 wrote:Have to admit I didn't see her weak or jealous at the end. I saw heartbroken and a confirmation that her suspicions about men were correct all along. She thought MB was different and now she thinks he is just like all the others who have exploited her throughout her life.

The tossing of the leather jacket to my eyes was a gesture of "my mistake, won't make the same one twice". I also saw defiance in the way the roar of her motorcycle was a metaphor for the roar of her own survival.

Lu, I had not even noticed the different lighting in the two rape scenes. I need to go back and look more closely for the things you pointed out.


But.....it is great to read what others think and to read what others saw. We all see things differently and going back to watch a scene again with the benefit of what others saw brings new insights.

The lighting was much brighter. Noticed it straight away.
Good prospective JEC, words weren't needed for that last scene.
I have to keep quiet for those who haven't read the books, a lot of things about the last scene get answered in part 2 and 3.

cheryl1700 wrote:

Lu wrote:

cheryl1700 wrote:Lu it wasnt particularly my cup of tea either, I must prefer a closed door, and leave it up to your imagination, like the ole b&W films, i have strong enough imagination to fill in the blanks and will always fast forward that part of the dvd when i get it.
But i did love the rest of it and the opening credits, reminded me of a bond film, lot effort gone into that.

I did like the rest of it very much! Only that rape scene...contrast it with Bjurman's "rape" a few scenes later. Why is Mara's scene so well lit and tits and ass showing and big drawn out process to strip her down, while Bjurman gets darkness and no explicitness, just mostly his facial expressions. Fincher's disgusting exploitative, sexist choices.

Also, why did Fincher choose to change the ending to make Lisbeth look weak, jealous, petty? It ruined the entire movie for me and pissed me off. Lisbeth deserved her chance to be the strong hero after all she accomplished in the movie. Ugh.

I havent read the books, but i did think it strange that Bjurman had a little flannel over his bits and pieces, cause that wouldnt happen.
I agree it was mostly his facial expressions that we saw, goose for gander and all that. If your going to be that graphic in a film, it should work the same for both sexes. (why didnt she strap him to the bed like he did her) agree sexist!
I just took the ending, that it showed MB that there "bedding" meant nothing to him. I also thought she would probably seek alittle revenge of her own in the future, for that. It did make her look as though she was looking for love, any love and grasping at straws, as she didnt have any of that in her life. Where she would have that many walls up in her mind, to protect herself, she wouldnt show him that sort of "love"; people like that make out they dont care.

Cheryl - I assume you meant why Bjurmann wasn't tied on the bed? Well he is a dead weight at that point and she probably dragged him from the doorway to the bedroom. He is a huge guy she can't lift him to the bed. Hence he was shackled and tortured on the floor.
Same room of torture but diff settings and lighting to create a diff mood maybe.
Bjurmann was naked too. When she gets up we see a pillow strategically placed to cover his front just a bit. That was the pillow she was sitting on when she did the tattooing.

I don't think DF is exploitative at all. He gave us in visuals what Larsson gave in words. If someone is said to be exploiting then it is both of them. It is uncomfortable to watch as any rape is. If they had left us to our imagination it would be a PG13 movie. They showed all the imp things that needed to be shown to understand where LS is coming from and her mistrust in others. She has been screwed over and over by many in her life. How are they going to justify her rage without at least showing this rape she went thru?
If they didn't show this, then the Bjurmann's torture should be closed doors too.
What about the sex scene with MB? She bares herself fully while he showed his naked back. Is that too much or too little? That scene was also described in the book. Just shows how comfortable she is in her sexuality.

@ Lu - About the last scene - it was done perfectly. Just like the way I read it. LS may be strong but that doesn't make her weak to have emotions and to fall in love with someone. Her tough outlook is to keep others she doesn't trust at bay. Her armor. But she is a caring person. Look at how she is with Palmgren. MB is the only person who treats her with respect and she falls for him. The scene just before this when she tells Palmgren about having made a friend that he would approve of, her eyes showed happiness. Of course she is gutted when she sees MB with someone. In the book she was devastated hence her behavior in the 2 book.

I love DF and have become a fan after TSN and this.

thats it, never thought of him being a dead weight big bloke to shift.
He does have a flannel over his bits at one point though, like a puddin basin material, which in reality should not have been there.
Either way with our differences in opinions, it was a hell of a good film. Deffo think daniel should have more nude but that is for my benefit nothing to do with the story

cheryl1700 wrote:thats it, never thought of him being a dead weight big bloke to shift.
He does have a flannel over his bits at one point though, like a puddin basin material, which in reality should not have been there.
Either way with our differences in opinions, it was a hell of a good film. Deffo think daniel should have more nude but that is for my benefit nothing to do with the story

CHERYL - MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY! Why on earth cover the fat man's privates so perfectly? It's like the fabric was cut to the exact size. She would have left him exposed, not covered up. That's Fincher's only screw up IMO. If he couldn't film his little pork sausage peepee (I'm assuming that's what it is - LOL) then he should have framed the shot differently.

And yeah, what's with LS's nudity and not MB's? NOT FAIR! I wish DC had at least worn tighty whities because we may have been able to catch a shadow or two. Or would that be three?

sf2la wrote:

cheryl1700 wrote:thats it, never thought of him being a dead weight big bloke to shift.
He does have a flannel over his bits at one point though, like a puddin basin material, which in reality should not have been there.
Either way with our differences in opinions, it was a hell of a good film. Deffo think daniel should have more nude but that is for my benefit nothing to do with the story

CHERYL - MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY! Why on earth cover the fat man's privates so perfectly? It's like the fabric was cut to the exact size. She would have left him exposed, not covered up. That's Fincher's only screw up IMO. If he couldn't film his little pork sausage peepee (I'm assuming that's what it is - LOL) then he should have framed the shot differently.

And yeah, what's with LS's nudity and not MB's? NOT FAIR! I wish DC had at least worn tighty whities because we may have been able to catch a shadow or two. Or would that be three?

we long overdue for new updated full frontal from daniel , it nice for timeline purposes yes?

calypso wrote:

sf2la wrote:

cheryl1700 wrote:thats it, never thought of him being a dead weight big bloke to shift.
He does have a flannel over his bits at one point though, like a puddin basin material, which in reality should not have been there.
Either way with our differences in opinions, it was a hell of a good film. Deffo think daniel should have more nude but that is for my benefit nothing to do with the story

CHERYL - MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY! Why on earth cover the fat man's privates so perfectly? It's like the fabric was cut to the exact size. She would have left him exposed, not covered up. That's Fincher's only screw up IMO. If he couldn't film his little pork sausage peepee (I'm assuming that's what it is - LOL) then he should have framed the shot differently.

And yeah, what's with LS's nudity and not MB's? NOT FAIR! I wish DC had at least worn tighty whities because we may have been able to catch a shadow or two. Or would that be three?

we long overdue for new updated full frontal from daniel , it nice for timeline purposes yes?

your minds are in the gutter all the time,

edit

tbossmc2000 wrote:
your minds are in the gutter all the time,

Like you two don't deserve each other

tbossmc2000 wrote:

calypso wrote:

sf2la wrote: CHERYL - MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY! Why on earth cover the fat man's privates so perfectly? It's like the fabric was cut to the exact size. She would have left him exposed, not covered up. That's Fincher's only screw up IMO. If he couldn't film his little pork sausage peepee (I'm assuming that's what it is - LOL) then he should have framed the shot differently.

And yeah, what's with LS's nudity and not MB's? NOT FAIR! I wish DC had at least worn tighty whities because we may have been able to catch a shadow or two. Or would that be three?

we long overdue for new updated full frontal from daniel , it nice for timeline purposes yes?

your minds are in the gutter all the time,

basura you not slap me
daniel owe us fully frontal so we can keep track

I totally with Luna, we need a updated full frontal from Daniel.
I dont care which film, we need one.

cheryl1700 wrote:I totally with Luna, we need a updated full frontal from Daniel.
I dont care which film, we need one.

Luna's right. I think it should be a law. He's way overdue. As the quote says, "If it weren't for the gutter, my mind would be homeless."

sf2la wrote: As the quote says, "If it weren't for the gutter, my mind would be homeless."

Never heard that one, but sure fits a lot of us.