Free speech or how do we want our discussions?

[$abbatha]

Spoiler OT :

IMO friendship is to being harshly honest,and even being critical it's normal,it's supposed that my friend is honest ,a friend isn't supposed to please me all time, in all matters.


Now to return on the main matters:i think still that i can't debate about a point of view radically different than mine,unless of course i want badly to start a fight,and regardless the other member sensibility.No common ground/common point = fight.
Listens from which pulpit comes the sermon...

[caramel]

I thought this thread was more appropriate for what I wanted to say:

Does it really matter whether his lady can act or not? Has values we approve of or not? We knew nothing about Sats and she was essentially one of us, made good.
Because she is his choice, I'm curious to know more, to see them together, and hopefully get glimpses into his world - and seeing him happy in it. I don't feel the need to rush out and watch every Rachel film, that Rachel isn't his Rachel.
We can dig and decipher some observations or truths about Rachel. But we still don't know her. Daniel does.
Whether she is good for him or not, (she's sure a hell of a lot better for him than the ciggies), time will tell. And I have my moments of doubt.
I agree he isn't looking his best, but he is looking better than he did this winter. I'm willing to give the guy some slack, he's worked like a cart horse for 2 years. Emerged from a relationship and a painful break-up (it takes two and two feel the pain, regardless of who appears to us to be the winner).

I really don't see anything wrong in their relationship.
From the little I know about her, RW seems ok to me. As regard to her films, some are good, some not so good. much like any other actor/actress. She has had a successful theatre career and IMO seems quite down to earth in interviews.
As long as they are happy together, to me that's all that matters.
To be honest I find it difficult to make judgements on someone I don't know. The same goes for Sats.
I just hope they are happy. IMO they are.

I agree with what you both have said. I look at this the same way.

I basically could care less if anyone on this board likes Rachel or not. I like her. That’s good enough for me to follow their relationship. I am not trying to get anyone on her bandwagon. I am sure she has plenty of fans who have followed for years to make a better judgement.

My problem is this and I would like someone to address this for me.

There are people here that judge her, judge their relationship based on very few facts. Well, I also did do that with Sats and I do that with other celebrities too out there. But the difference is that I and many others too I am sure did not bring that prejudice to the board.
So why is it ok to do that now? I see that as a double standard pure and simple. And calling it their ‘opinion’ is just sugar coated ‘hatred’ the way I see it. If someone thinks ‘hatred ‘ is a harsh word so be it. I am reading these petty judgmental posts that way anyway.

Calling RW out because of a personal tragedy is not acceptable. Take it offline. There are pms and emails to facilitate that.

Because some members made their disdain towards R and the couple so apparent in the beginning that even a small negative comment about her dress style seems like a slight against her person. To me it is like they have found a weapon to beat her with, so let’s use that. That is the vibe I get.

To call someone classless based on their dressing style – good grief! How petty is that! In response to that post by someone I said Sats’ dresses were blah and scary! I did not bring Sats into the discussion at all. I could care less about his ex-gfs and their dressing styles.
I think Lindsay Lohan and Britney Spears are classless. Do not call RW classless just because she doesn’t dress the way some like. She has more class in her little finger tips when compared to so many HW wannabes. I say that based on what I have seen and read from her interviews. Not from her red carpet fake posing pictures! So what if her stylist does a lousy job of dressing her. The true person is someone we will never know.

So what if she is a poor actress by some standards? Some still don’t accept DC as Bond! So would it be ok to judge him for the person he is based on how well he acts?! NO WAY!

JEC mentioned in her post as to how you have had healthy discussions comparing DC’s then gfs with his exes. Tell me honestly, did anyone call Sats out repeatedly and lived to continue their membership? Did someone call her classless, clingy, a poor movie producer ( what movie producer? Give me a break ) and continued their healthy discussions here? Give me a poster who made her disdain towards Sats obvious enough and repeatedly so, and she was embraced by the rest of you. I think she/he would have been ripped apart and banned because she/he is a ‘hater’. But it is ok to do that to RW now ? How so?

Please don’t say she has to prove to the board her worth as his gf. No one has to prove anything to anybody. They are just living their lives together.

This relationship is fresh and new. I love the fact that they want to be with each other at every opportunity they get. So I think it is more than fine. There is nothing ‘fishy’ about it. To make those kind of calls based on our assumptions is silly to me. We are all sitting behind the computer speculating and assuming . These speculations will not come any close to their reality.

Will they have a happily ever after – who the hell knows? Will their relationship break up like many do – may be. If that happens so be it. You don’t have to like it but just keep the negativity away.

I have another question – We ( well some of us ) are all dying to see them at the RC for C&A. What if RW can’t make it? She has many things on her plate after all. Is she going to be flogged in this board ? Are members gonna come out and say what a bad and un-supportive gf she is?

What if she comes and smiles sweetly at the cameras holding hands with DC? Are they gonna call her a fame whore and that she is there for publicity? I bet some will think that here.

Feel free to think anything about her but EXTEND THE SAME COURTESY YOU DID FOR SATS.

Gg – I do not have to see their posing on the red carpet trying to promote a movie, to see if the love for each other glows or not. The few tweets we get about their get together and they travelling coast to coast to spend a few days together speaks volumes. Real love and support for each other happens in their own little private world which we will never be privy to.

[sf2la]

Carmel raises some excellent points that, IMO, deserved to be addressed.

I agree with her entire post, which probably surprises no one. I'm thinking the only difference between our thoughts are that I truly liked/like Sats - or of what I knew of her.

Since Daniel broke off with Sats (I personally buy no other scenario), I am obviously convinced that she was not the woman for him that we thought she was. We knew nothing about her and bought into a fairy tale. People change. Relationships get stale. As Caramel says, the same could happen for R&W. How many of us have been divorced? We never thought we would be, but it happened.

I personally don't want to hear pot shots taken at Rachel as Caramel predicts if she doesn't show for a premier, etc. There is no room for that on this board. One can predict why that certain situation might be, but I say they had better not be derogatory remarks about her. That wasn't allowed with Sats and shouldn't be allowed here.

Thanks for a thoughtful post, Caramel.

[Germangirl]

I think, there IS a difference between Sats and Rachel. Daniel and Sats came to most of us as a package and we lived with both for 4 years plus (some of us) and yes, after seeing the bunch of crap written on Just Jared it became an unwritten rule, that we won't do the same, but I could tell you exactly the people, who didn't like her, because they said so, just not in a nasty way.

In comparison to Rachel, it was just not so interesting, because she was a given, like it or not.

Now, that Rachel came along, its normal that she is being discussed, I think, and from all ankles, too. This is the right we have and I believe that by now, the rules for that are clear also. If you look closely, I called off 2 people today, because I felt it was going into the wrong direction. So - here we have the same rule for Rachel as we had for Sats. Its just discussed more fiercely for above reasons (IMO anyway). BUT - we should try at least to be fair and not give situations or whatever a negative spin. Innocent until proven guilty could be a good attitude.

I believe, the most important point is NOT NASTY.

Say whatever you want, but do it in a respectful way. I am pro Rachel myself, but I have learned, that it is unavoidable to give everybody a voice here - as long as they don't misuse their freedom and I believe, everybody is fine with that.

This board will be dead, when we want to make it a "drool" over everything forum and don't give different opinions a chance.

I tried to speak for everybody as good as possible. If I failed, I am sorry...

[sf2la]

I think, there IS a difference between Sats and Rachel. Daniel and Sats came to most of us as a package and we lived with both for 4 years plus (some of us) and yes, after seeing the bunch of crap written on Just Jared it became an unwritten rule, that we won't do the same, but I could tell you exactly the people, who didn't like her, because they said so, just not in a nasty way.

In comparison to Rachel, it was just not so interesting, because she was a given, like it or not.

Now, that Rachel came along, its normal that she is being discussed, I think, and from all ankles, too. This is the right we have and I believe that by now, the rules for that are clear also. If you look closely, I called off 2 people today, because I felt it was going into the wrong direction. So - here we have the same rule for Rachel as we had for Sats. Its just discussed for fiercely for above reasons (IMO anyway).

I believe, the important point is NOT NASTY.

Say whatever you want, but do it in a respectful way. I am pro Rachel myself, but I have learned, that it is unavoidable to give everybody a voice here - as long as they don't misuse their freedom and I believe, everybody is fine with that.

This board will be dead, when we want to make it a "drool" over everything forum and don't give different opinions a chance.

I tried to speak for everybody as good as possible. If I failed, I am sorry...

I don't want at Rachel love-fest either. I think that was a flaw with the D/S forum. I just don't want the nasty either, but I see it creeping in and can see it coming.

I'd like to have these discussions on his thread. I think we got carried away on the Papz thread. The lively discussions are good, but we should contain them. Do you think we can try to stick to that?

You've done a great job, GG. A breakthrough happened for me last night and that we got people to talk. Poor $ab has taken a beating for way too long for being to only one willing to voice her opinion. How are we going to have discussions without various perspectives.

Still, I think we need to protect Rachel as we protected Sats. We were outraged at the negativity from the JJ boards toward her; the same applies here. Let Rachel do something worth being verbally beat up, not before.

[Germangirl]

I'd like to have these discussions on his thread. I think we got carried away on the Papz thread. The lively discussions are good, but we should contain them. Do you think we can try to stick to that?

I have to disagree - like you said yourself - finally people came out of the closet and spoke their mind and like I said, I thought, it went well and wasn't over the top. Its just that we should stay away form being offended by another opinion, may we understand it or not. If we can do that, we can have discussions about everything IMO.

The one other danger I see is, when it goes on and on and when there is no stop and the same things are being said over and over.

[Dunda]

I'd like to have these discussions on his thread. I think we got carried away on the Papz thread. The lively discussions are good, but we should contain them. Do you think we can try to stick to that?

I disagree - like you said yourself. Finally people came out of the closet and spoke their mind and like I said, I thought, it went well and wasn't over the top. Its just that we should stay away form being offended by another opinion, may we understand it or not. If we can do that, we can have discussions about everything IMO.

I think sf2la meant to have this discussions here.

There are people who are not interested in these discussions and they have to dig to pages and pages in the pic and video section, without new pics.

[sf2la]

I'd like to have these discussions on his thread. I think we got carried away on the Papz thread. The lively discussions are good, but we should contain them. Do you think we can try to stick to that?

I have to disagree - like you said yourself - finally people came out of the closet and spoke their mind and like I said, I thought, it went well and wasn't over the top. Its just that we should stay away form being offended by another opinion, may we understand it or not. If we can do that, we can have discussions about everything IMO.

The one other danger I see is, when it goes on and on and when there is no stop and the same things are being said over and over.

Okay! I was just thinking about trying to keep the papz thread to the papz stuff, but you know best, for sure. xo

[sf2la]

I'd like to have these discussions on his thread. I think we got carried away on the Papz thread. The lively discussions are good, but we should contain them. Do you think we can try to stick to that?

I disagree - like you said yourself. Finally people came out of the closet and spoke their mind and like I said, I thought, it went well and wasn't over the top. Its just that we should stay away form being offended by another opinion, may we understand it or not. If we can do that, we can have discussions about everything IMO.

I think sf2la meant to have this discussions here.

There are people who are not interested in these discussions and they have to dig to pages and pages in the pic and video section, without new pics.

yes, that's what I meant.

[Germangirl]

I'd like to have these discussions on his thread. I think we got carried away on the Papz thread. The lively discussions are good, but we should contain them. Do you think we can try to stick to that?

I disagree - like you said yourself. Finally people came out of the closet and spoke their mind and like I said, I thought, it went well and wasn't over the top. Its just that we should stay away form being offended by another opinion, may we understand it or not. If we can do that, we can have discussions about everything IMO.

I think sf2la meant to have this discussions here.

There are people who are not interested in these discussions and they have to dig to pages and pages in the pic and video section, without new pics.

OH thanks. Didn't get that.
But the problem I see is, that you never know, when it starts and how long its gonna be. I can understand, that its annoying for some to read through that without being interested but not sure, how to be able to make a cut and say - "from now on, this goes to another thread." We always got off topic - for pages...

[Germangirl]

Okay! I was just thinking about trying to keep the papz thread to the papz stuff, but you know best, for sure. xo

Sorry, didn't get that. It was a long day having my mods hat on. and I certainly don't know best, just trying to find the best middle way for everybody.
I agree but see my other post. How can that be done?

[sf2la]

Okay! I was just thinking about trying to keep the papz thread to the papz stuff, but you know best, for sure. xo

Sorry, didn't get that. It was a long day having my mods hat on. and I certainly don't know best, just trying to find the best middle way for everybody.
I agree but see my other post. How can that be done?

Maybe we will just get a sense for it and post a link to head to a certain page on another thread? Not many topics go on for so long, so it's typically not called for, but if someone gets the inkling, like Caramel did, why not?

Play it by ear?

[$abbatha]

Okay! I was just thinking about trying to keep the papz thread to the papz stuff, but you know best, for sure. xo

Sorry, didn't get that. It was a long day having my mods hat on. and I certainly don't know best, just trying to find the best middle way for everybody.
I agree but see my other post. How can that be done?

Maybe we will just get a sense for it and post a link to head to a certain page on another thread? Not many topics go on for so long, so it's typically not called for, but if someone gets the inkling, like Caramel did, why not?

Play it by ear?

I guess that this is hard to accomplish,i mean in this way it would end to break the discussion.Just in my opinion of course.
Even on S.Valentine piccies we discussed at the same way,same we did with the read brief wore by Craig into the airport piccies.OT was never and issue here, i don't how this can be solved.

[$abbatha]

$ab, I greatly apologize if you feel I badgered you in any way. In no way did I mean to do that. I didn't think that I had, but obviously I was wrong. I'll be more careful in the future. I was really trying to get at just the one answer about if anyone could fill Sats's shoes. And you were the only one with the courage to post. FYI, as a cultural difference, in the States, it is certainly not a given that the woman is to blame if an affair like theirs occurs.


I don't expect Sats to be put away in moth balls; quite the contrary. I was just trying to get a sense if some members of the forum dislike Rachel and any other woman in his life because she's not Sats. That's key to me. I do think in time, if R&D continue this love affair, that she will and should become less and less of a focus here. This forum moves like a train out of control as long as Daniel does. He throws us curve balls.

All I can say is that no one has to LIKE Rachel, but it sure makes life on this forum a lot easier to accept her, which is exactly what the Sats/Dan forum expected.

One more thing - I am just sticking up for Daniel. I can't help but do so.

Ok now first of all i accept the apologize,no worries,i don't even think you need to apologize by the way.
I just simply let it out my feelings of lats night.I guess that others members after i did explain their reasons reagarding Weisz,i wasn't trying to stop the discussion,i just tried to explain my reasons, that were the same since January by the way,and i never changed my opinion,it's firm regarding Weisz.Sometimes i becom a parrot,since i repeatedly said the same extact things regarding Weisz but is simply because i never changed my mind regarding her.This is the reason why i became an annoying parrot lately.

Sf you can't simply ask to someone,like me,that dislike Craig's new patner, to accept her just because you and others feels the need to talk about Weisz comfortably,and are uneasy reading some negative opinion regarding her into a Craig related forum.
I guess that Weisz has an official or unofficial board dedicated to her,so if some can't stand to read some critique about Weisz,sorry to seems harsh,but try to find some other board fully related to Weisz.
I really don't see the need to come here, in a Craig related board,and discuss about Weisz. Sorry again if this may seems unfair.

[Germangirl]

I guess that Weisz has an official or unofficial board dedicated to her,so if some can't stand to read some critique about Weisz,sorry to seems harsh,but try to find some other board fully related to Weisz.
I really don't see the need to come here, in a Craig related board,and discuss about Weisz. Sorry again if this may seems unfair.

Can sorta relate, to what you said, Sab, only the last - not talking about RW OR Sats on here, because its called DTDaniel is not possible, because everything concerning him is an issue.

I think, what sf meant with the more you accept/like her, the more fun you have here - I didn't get her post as meaning, you HAVE to. It was more in an "Make it easier for yourself" sort of way. She meant well, I think, even though, it might not be possible for some, which is accepted.

_____________________________________________________________
I put up this line, because this is not a reply to you anymore, Sab

What I really feel is, that we have to find the fine line, when it just becomes too much of everything - too much "hate", too much "love". AND once in a while, we might step back and remember, why we are here.
First and foremost, because we LIKE this man, which might mean, we should give him credit before we critisize. The credit should be in the majority by all the freedom of speech we all have and should use, otherwise we turn this into one of those boards, we never wanted to be.