a philosophical question to ponder

caramel · Post by **caramel** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:15 pm

Dunda wrote:
I really think he doesn't know what love is. He has a deep friendship with Erika, I don't think he was in love with his wife and in the third book when he meets Monica Superwoman and Berger says him that Monica is in love with him, he says ""I think I'm in love with her too."

Thx for the refresher Dunda, its been awhile since I read the books. I also very much understood that he wasn't in love with any of the women who crossed his path. Including Berger. She was conveniently available and a friend so that relationship continued far longer probably than his other relationships. I remember thinking he was clueless about Lisbeth's feelings for him. So no hurt meant from his side.

BTW - I like the name you gave for the 'policelady' that some of us have been calling her here. I think I like Monica Superwoman

even though it is a mouthful.

Post by **Dunda** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:15 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the book called "Men who don't love women" in Spain?

I would not complain if we put Blomkvist in that category, though.

Provided that we define Love as the mutual and exclusive feeling we have for a single person. Not the love we feel for friends/relatives....

I don't know if I made really clear what I want to say

Laredo · Post by **Laredo** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:08 pm

honeyjes wrote:I don’t think Blomkvist hates women, Lisbeth knows his lifestyle and background as she is already privy to the type of person he is and his relationships with women. Her hurt feelings weren’t deliberate on his part, he didn’t pursue her or made any overtures to suggest a relationship other than friendship, and apart from jumping his bones what should he have seen to make him think that she wanted more than sex from him.

For her to fall for him and be hurt only points to the fact that you can’t really choose who you fall for when you open your heart to another person, love isn’t rational and there is always a possibility that the other person may not reciprocate.

I didn't understand why she was so mad at him , she knew who was from watching him .Why did she think she was more than a easy lay to him ??? Maybe he is a guy who just uses women for his needs , no emotional attachment . Does that mean he hates them ?

tbossmc2000 · Post by **tbossmc2000** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:39 pm

Anyone that opens their heart and let's a person in takes the risk of being hurt.
Lisbeth had turned her emotions off so many years ago she didn't realize she was going to unchartered territory when she let herself have feelings.
Blomkvist had years of expierence on her, marriage, divorce, long term affair and relationship wiht Erica and the fact that woman through themself at him.
He didn't give her any falce promises, she went down that path and she once again found the hurt from a man.
My heart bleeds for Lisbeth. As we get to book 2 and 3 she sees a friend can be non sexual and true to the heart.
She closed herself off and only used sex as a physical outlet without emotion.
This is a complicated subject, there is no 1 answer or right or wrong.

Post by **Elaine_Figgis** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:08 pm

tbossmc2000 wrote:Anyone that opens their heart and let's a person in takes the risk of being hurt.
Lisbeth had turned her emotions off so many years ago she didn't realize she was going to unchartered territory when she let herself have feelings.
Blomkvist had years of expierence on her, marriage, divorce, long term affair and relationship wiht Erica and the fact that woman through themself at him.
He didn't give her any falce promises, she went down that path and she once again found the hurt from a man.
My heart bleeds for Lisbeth. As we get to book 2 and 3 she sees a friend can be non sexual and true to the heart.
She closed herself off and only used sex as a physical outlet without emotion.
This is a complicated subject, there is no 1 answer or right or wrong.

Tboss, yes, yes, yes, and yes!

Germangirl · Post by **Germangirl** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:34 pm

For me, no, Mikael doesn't hate woman, he likes them, even respects them and treats them well, without loosing sight of his own wellfare.

Re Lisbeth - to me the key to her feelings is, WHAT is it, she falls for? For me, its just the natural way, he treats woman. She never experienced something quite like it. She had no chance NOT to fall in love with him. I think, he could have been ugly and fat and whatnot, had he treated her the same way, she would love him. RESPECT.

Mikael has no idea really, who this girl is and what was her past. He reacted to her in his normal friendly unabusing way, found himself rather used by her sexually and took, what came his way. He had no idea, that his NORMAL way of treating her, was NOT normal for her. It was a gift. The way he just gives her 50.000 without asking was something so incredible to her, that she probably thought, it must be love for him, too - because in her world, no one would just give out money like that without asking the world in return.

Its not her fault, but not his either. Their sight of things is just too different.

Cyanaurora · Post by **Cyanaurora** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:05 am

I don't think Mikael hates women, nor deliberately uses them. But, he has so much more experience than Lisbeth. How many of us have thought a man had more feeling for us than he actually did?
It may seem it should have been obvious to Lisbeth that she was the aggressor and Mikael was just accepting her advances. But Lisbeth lacked experience in all relationships, let alone a monogamous one with a man. You could say Mikael should have foreseen what was going to happen with Lisbeth's feelings (that they would accelerate rapidly) but he was obviously used to casual sex.
He did warn Lisbeth that sex between them was a bad idea "I'm too old, and we work together" I think that is more than most men would have done in the same moment, when a women half their age is jumping on them.

cheryl1700 · Post by **cheryl1700** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:52 am

After he said and we work together, lisabeth said you work with your (cant remember her name) editor too.
and he turned around and said, but i do have some standards!!
I would have wanted to slap him at that point, certainly say right fine, and walk off, but she just carried on and jumped on top. It was her decision he didnt give her any encouragement.

Germangirl · Post by **Germangirl** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:01 am

cheryl1700 wrote:After he said and we work together, lisabeth said you work with your (cant remember her name) editor too.
and he turned around and said, but i do have some standards!!
I would have wanted to slap him at that point, certainly say right fine, and walk off, but she just carried on and jumped on top. It was her decision he didnt give her any encouragement.

At this point, I think, she was already jealous. Super brain doesn't remember Erikas name? No way. She just couldn't bring herself to speak it out loud.
IMO there was some wish in her to be - at least - equal to Erika - friend and lover,

cheryl1700 · Post by **cheryl1700** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:46 pm

Germangirl wrote:
cheryl1700 wrote:After he said and we work together, lisabeth said you work with your (cant remember her name) editor too.
and he turned around and said, but i do have some standards!!
I would have wanted to slap him at that point, certainly say right fine, and walk off, but she just carried on and jumped on top. It was her decision he didnt give her any encouragement.
At this point, I think, she was already jealous. Super brain doesn't remember Erikas name? No way. She just couldn't bring herself to speak it out loud.
IMO there was some wish in her to be - at least - equal to Erika - friend and lover,

No, sorry. I couldnt remember the person's name not lisabeth, but i remember him say that, "Yes but i do have some standards", i would have taken that as an insult and wanted to slap him across the face.

Germangirl · Post by **Germangirl** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:54 pm

cheryl1700 wrote:
Germangirl wrote:
cheryl1700 wrote:After he said and we work together, lisabeth said you work with your (cant remember her name) editor too.
and he turned around and said, but i do have some standards!!
I would have wanted to slap him at that point, certainly say right fine, and walk off, but she just carried on and jumped on top. It was her decision he didnt give her any encouragement.
At this point, I think, she was already jealous. Super brain doesn't remember Erikas name? No way. She just couldn't bring herself to speak it out loud.
IMO there was some wish in her to be - at least - equal to Erika - friend and lover,
No, sorry. I couldnt remember the person's name not lisabeth, but i remember him say that, "Yes but i do have some standards", i would have taken that as an insult and wanted to slap him across the face.

OH ok, but Lisbeth does NOT call her Erika, acts as if she had forgotten her name, too

So, I come to the conclusion, that she is jealous already.

chippi · Post by **chippi** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:01 pm

Cool new thread. I just barely managed to finish reading the book before the movie came out. I just don't have much time to read for fun. I didn't feel that the Mikael of the book was lumped in with the haters. I think he was almost set as an opposite to those characters, perhaps to illustrate the differences. On the contrary, I saw him as actually being advanced in his sexual politics. He seemed to value women's judgement and treat them generally as equals.